41. Filling our lives with honesty with Kayla Jackson
In Philippians 4, Paul shared: “Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest…think on these things.” We’ve heard it before that “honesty is the best policy” so how do we discover what it really means to be honest with God, honest with ourselves, and honest with others? President Nelson has shared that we can change the world and find peace in our lives when we interact with others managing our differences with honesty and respect.
“ Being honest is illuminating.” — Kayla Jackson
Sometimes it seems like the world’s definition of honesty and truth is a moving target: just look at how many times the definition of health has changed in the last hundred years for evidence. But God is a god of truth, so what can we do to fill our lives with truth and honesty and be in line with the Savior? Kayla Jackson was a speaker at BYU women's conference whose ability to be real stuck out to the listeners. She and Kathryn talk today about how honesty leads to more peace.
Our goal here on earth is to create relationships that will last throughout the eternities, and when we can maintain honest and respectful conversations with others, we will build those relationships.
The Savior and our Heavenly Father are bound by their promises, so we can trust that they are full of truth and light.
One way we can fill our lives with truth and honesty is by seeking God's will for our lives.
There are times when we need to be more honest with ourselves. Having questions and bringing them to the Lord is one way we can honestly seek the truth.
The beginning of our relationship with God and with others is being honest about who we are and how we will show up.
Small & Simple Challenge
Echoing the words of President Nelson, we can examine our relationships in the context of the way we treat others. Take a moment this week to prayerfully reflect and ask, "how is my discipleship in the context of how I treat others?"
Transcript +
Kathryn Davis 00:00 Sometimes it seems like the world's definition of honesty and truth is a moving target. Just look at how many times the definition of health has changed in the last 100 years for evidence, but God is a God of truth. So what can we do to fill our lives with truth and honesty and be in line with the Savior? Hi, and welcome to Magnify an LDS Living podcast where we cheer, inspire, and embolden each other as women and followers of Jesus Christ. We hope to use our influence to make a difference in the world. I'm your host, Kathryn Davis, a mom, a seminary teacher, and a grilling enthusiast who loves God. In Philippians 4, Paul shared whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, think on these things. We've heard it before that honesty is the best policy. So how do we discover what it really means to be honest with God, honest with ourselves and honest with others? President Nelson has shared that we can change the world and find peace in our lives when we interact with others managing our differences with honesty and respect. So let's dive into what honesty means and what kind of peacemaking it can bring into our lives. I'm with Kayla Jackson today. Kayla, I'm so excited to get to know you better. I actually heard you at women's conference, and I loved the thoughts that you shared. And really, it struck my daughters, and they loved what you said. And so ever since then I'm like, I want to know more of her thoughts. So I'm excited that you're here. And before we get going, I really want our listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So I have some rapid fire questions for you.
Kayla Jackson 01:45 Sounds good.
Kathryn Davis 01:46 Okay, so I do you know that you are from Washington, DC. And I want to know, what is your favorite part about living in the city?
Kayla Jackson 01:54 My favorite part, I love the diversity of the city. So one of my favorite activities is to take the metro down to the National Mall, where you can see the Capitol and several of the monuments and memorials. And there is just a breadth of diversity, different backgrounds, people from different parts of the world, they speak different languages, they have different perspectives. And so I just love getting to know people, people watching out on the National Mall, and experiencing the diversity firsthand is super fun.
Kathryn Davis 02:27 Which is so important. And I think it's something that we all need to maybe love and embrace a little bit more, because there so much to learn.
Kayla Jackson 02:37 Yes, and perspective. Totally.
Kathryn Davis 02:40 It's so important. Okay, so I also know that you work at Family Search as the head of marketing for Africa. Yes. So can you tell me what is the coolest thing you have learned in that role?
Kayla Jackson 02:54 The coolest thing... That's such a good question. So I've had the chance I regularly go back to Africa, I've been to six different countries. And the purpose when I go out there is to meet people that are in the area offices, but then really get to know church members and members of the general public and understand their motivations for doing family history or what excites them when it comes to family and their heritage. And I think the coolest thing that I've learned from that is how universal family is. So many of the answers that I get when I talk to these people are the same as if we were living here in the United States. And the method of doing family history looks really different. But that motivation at its at its core is the same.
Kathryn Davis 03:36 I have heard from many people that if you travel to Africa, it changes you absolutely come back different
Kayla Jackson 03:45 100% The people there are so good. They just have a light and an energy and abundance about them. It's so true. They just have big hearts big spirits.
Kathryn Davis 03:57 Okay, so my final question, if you could visit anywhere for a week, where would you go?
Kayla Jackson 04:03 I would go to Italy. It is like the next thing on my my bucket list. I have wanted to go to Rome and to Florence and to the Amalfi coast. So I would go to Italy.
Kathryn Davis 04:13 You've never been?
Kayla Jackson 04:14 I've never been no, I've been to like 18 different countries. And that is not one of them. So...
Kathryn Davis 04:20 You've been to 18 different countries?
Kayla Jackson 04:22 I have since I was 18. I've been to 18 countries. So 10 years.
Kathryn Davis 04:27 That's amazing. Kind of fun. Yeah. And maybe that's why you love diversity so much is because there's something about traveling that I think opens our eyes to different ways of living and different perspectives.
Kayla Jackson 04:41 Absolutely. I'm biracial so my dad's black and my mom's white. And I think for me being able to travel and experience diverse perspectives and opinions has helped me to like figure out and reconcile my own identity as I see where other people fit. It helps me to understand where I fit in the world. So I think that's one of the reasons why I'm always drawn to exploring and adventuring in that way.
Kathryn Davis 05:04 Well, Kayla, I'm excited to dig into President Nelson's Peacemaker address and the last few weeks, we have been digging into different attributes of a peacemaker. And I'm excited to talk about the attribute of honesty, and how that attribute can strengthen our ability to be peacemakers, which is something that I've never really thought about before. But as I've gone through that talk, and I look at that attribute for me, it was a natural, Oh, that's an easy checkmark for me. Yeah. Right? Like honesty, we can be honest, that seems like sometimes a little easier than being patient for me. But as I've looked a little bit more, it is not an easy attribute. Sometimes when we think of honesty, it's because we're comparing with the world, we're comparing ourselves with the world. And sometimes we can see oh, yeah, we are honest. But this is a divine attribute. It's not just not lying, or confessing when we've done something wrong, or when we're in the wrong, it's more about how we deal with others, and with our own thoughts. So when you think about honesty, what does it mean to you, as you think about it as an attribute of a peacemaker?
Kayla Jackson 06:21 Yeah, I think that honesty, for me is being pure in heart. And I've loved our study of the New Testament this year, because we are reminded over and over again, but the Lord is most concerned about our heart, what are our intentions, going into relationships going into different experiences. And so I think as a peacemaker, I just was reading this quote, the other day, "Exercise is like a relationship, it doesn't work if you cheat." And I think the same applies for being a peacemaker. We can't cheat our way into being a peacemaker, we won't yield the benefits and the peace that comes will be superficial if we are trying to say all of the right things, in an interaction face to face with an individual, but inside of our hearts, we feel ill will towards that person, or we're speaking poorly of them when we're not in their presence. So I just I love the reminder from President Nelson that our standard of communication, whether we're with that person or not, is to build and to uplift and inspire.
Kathryn Davis 07:22 And that is an attribute of honesty. I think that's such a beautiful definition. And actually, when you look up honesty, one of the definitions is truthful, upright, and just. And I think really a peacemaker is just and truthful and upright, that is who the Savior is to his core like that's the character of God.
Kayla Jackson 07:47 Absolutely. I love as we study the Scriptures that reminder over and over again that the Lord is bound by his promises. He does exactly what he says that he is going to do.
Kathryn Davis 07:59 And I think it's important to remember, President Nelson has said this, which I loved, he said, "differences of opinion are a part of life." And so being honest, and being upright doesn't mean that we're not going to have differences of opinion. And it's not going to mean that we have to agree with everyone. But he says we have to know how to discuss we have to hear ideas and honest feelings about everything we discuss. And I just want to know, Kayla, why is it important to have honesty when discussing differences in opinion?
Kayla Jackson 08:32 One of the phrases that I love from President Nelson's talk at the very end, is he says that "we're seeking to build relationships that will last throughout the eternities." And I think the way in which we build a relationship with authentic connection and understanding is that it needs to be rooted in honesty. And so I had an opportunity several years ago, when I was at BYU, I participated in the Jerusalem study abroad program.
Kathryn Davis 08:59 So did I!
Kayla Jackson 09:01 Oh, so fun! It was such a great, great experience. You're with a cohort of about 60 to 70 students. And one of the things that I really loved as we were studying about the Old and New Testament, as we were taking classes about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, is that so much of what we were learning bled into the lunch and the breakfast and the dinner hour, and we would have these conversations where we didn't always agree. And for me, I loved it because I felt like our connection to each other grew. I think it forced us to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. How do we ever grow if we just surround ourselves with people that think the same way? And then I think it really helps us to improve our ability to articulate our feelings. And as I think about President Spencer W Kimball that that prophecy that he gave about the women of the church, it was that in their being articulate, they would help to bring people to the Gospel. And so as we interact with people that have different views, it's an opportunity for us to articulate our own feelings.
Kathryn Davis 10:05 I think this is so important because sometimes when we think about being a peacemaker, we think it means that we're we don't want to cause conflict or contention. So I'll just not say anything. I'll hold my tongue. And then there will be peace. But really, what President Nelson is saying is that being a peacemaker means being honest and voicing our opinions.
Kayla Jackson 10:29 Yes. And I think as we do that, we won't experience a superficial peace, it will be authentic and real. I think sometimes we think if we're silent, then there's peace, quote, unquote. But is it? Is it truly peace? Is there actually an understanding with you and that other person? And I don't think there is. So I think it does just help to deepen our connection and bond with other people.
Kathryn Davis 10:54 And like you said, because they're eternal relationships,
Kayla Jackson 10:57 Yeah, the best relationships.
Kathryn Davis 10:59 Well, I think it's so important that President Nelson mentioned this attribute of honesty, because we know that God is a God of truth. Right? And that the Savior taught over and over again, that He is the Spirit of truth. And so what have you learned about God and Jesus Christ, that helps remind you that they are full of truth?
Kayla Jackson 11:25 I love spending time every single day in the scriptures and being reminded of the covenant promises that we have. And over and over and over again, we learn that our Father in heaven and our Savior, Jesus Christ, they are bound by their promises. They keep their words, and I feel strengthened as I learned that we have a God that will deliver us. He delivered Moses and his people. He delivered Esther. He delivered Alma from the bondage of the Lamanites and Amulon. And so just having that reminder that the Lord will bring us out, He will redeem us, He will take us as His people. And he does that from a place of infinite love that everything that they ask us to do is to lift us and to bless us and they will never lead us astray. So I think just from having personal experiences, and then spending time in the scriptures, we can feel full confidence and trust in our Father and His plan for us.
Kathryn Davis 12:27 And that's so important to be able to take that next step, when we don't know the outcome. Honesty is the very essence and character of our Heavenly Father. And that is one of my favorite titles is or when I think about God is that God is a promise keeper. And I know that when he asks me to do specific things, even if it's hard, the blessings far outweighs any sacrifice that I may have to give is because God is a promise keeper. And I trust that and I rely on that, in fact, you, you're talking about those covenants that bring peace into our life, my son is leaving on a mission. Sorry, he's doing home MTC right now. And he leaves next week. And this is hard for a mom's heart to send her child out to a foreign country or into the unknown. And this is where I trust God as a promise keeper, because he has promised that if we sacrifice that he will be there. And that if we give what we have that He will bless us and be with us and that his angels will be on our right hand and on our left. And because I know that God is honest and truthful, I can send my son next week, because I am relying on his honesty and on his promises. I think there are so many times in our lives when we are asked to do things and if we can trust and know who God is, then it allows us the peace to be able to do that.
Kayla Jackson 14:08 Right? It gives us that strength.
Kathryn Davis 14:10 Well, Elder Anderson gave this great devotional called "Honesty, the Heart of Spirituality." And in it he said this, "the world would tell us that truth and honesty are difficult to define. The world finds humor in casual lying and quickly excuses so called innocent deception. The contrast between right and wrong is dulled, and the consequences of dishonesty are minimized. To constantly receive the Spirit of truth, the Holy Ghost, we must fill our lives with truth and honesty. As we become completely honest, our spiritual eyes are opened to increased enlightenment." And I think this is a fascinating quote. And I just want to ask you, how do you fill your life with truth and honesty? He's not saying be truthful or be honest. He's saying fill your Life with truth and honesty.
Kayla Jackson 15:02 I love that quote, I feel like for me, filling my life with honesty is seeking to know God's will in my life and staying close to the spirit, our objective and purpose here on Earth is to learn and to grow. And our Father in heaven is willing to help us in that pursuit, and in that journey. I love in the New Testament, when we read of the rich young ruler as he came to Jesus and said, What lack I yet? The Savior was honest with him. And he gave him a hard ask. He gave that ask as an invitation. And that invitation was extended with complete love. But it was something that was going to push him and so for me, I find it so beneficial to spend time and reflection. Every single week, we have the opportunity to reflect and evaluate while we take the sacrament. And then even apart from taking the sacrament, I love to have a weekly review and reflection, what are things that went well this week? What are things that I needed to work on? A situation that could have been better? And as I go to the Lord seeking for his help, and for his guidance and direction, he will illuminate to me the things that I need to work on. So I think staying close to the Lord, staying close to the Spirit. And then I also think just in our daily lives, do we have that small core group of people that we can go to that know and love us? That can see our blind spots? That we can counsel with. And they can help us to be able to see more clearly as well, I think is also really important.
Kathryn Davis 16:32 So like that rich, young ruler, have you ever felt like Heavenly Father has given you a hard ask?
Kayla Jackson 16:40 Yes. Oh, yes, I have. For me, one of the experiences that that felt like a hard ask was my mission, my missionary service. I served in the Amazon jungles of Peru, I don't think they send the sisters there anymore. And I put in my papers, knowing full well, I wanted to serve a mission. And I was so excited. But I thought I was gonna go to a city, because I'm a city girl. And that didn't happen. And you know what, that's exactly what needed to happen for me was to go and to have those experiences, and every day felt so hard. And there were moments where I didn't know if it was worth it. But the Lord was teaching me how to press forward to move forward. Even when I was questioning and not fully confident that what I was doing was really making a difference. And so I'm so grateful for those hard that hard asked that I was given because it pushed me to a place where I felt like I have a deeper relationship with my Savior, Jesus Christ and a greater faith and trust in him.
Kathryn Davis 17:48 I think that is often the result of a hard ask. And there have been so many times in my life where it has been a hard ask whether that's a mission or to have a child or to start teaching seminary or whatever that is that it's out of my comfort zone. And I don't understand how it's going to work out. But I trust that that hard ask will bring me closer to my Savior, Jesus Christ. And sometimes those hard asks come when we are honest with ourselves, and when we seek for truth, when we seek for his hand and his guidance, because it's sometimes really easy to just kind of go through life and not stop and take that time to be still or to be honest with ourselves and receive spiritual guidance and direction. And that is often linked to our own honesty. I think that's interesting that Elder Anderson said that is that spiritual guidance is linked to our ability to be honest with ourselves. Why do you think that is?
Kayla Jackson 18:59 I think, being honest, it's illuminating. When we're dishonest with ourselves. I think that there's shadows, right? They're things that we're trying to deny or we're not wanting to accept. And the Lord, in order to illuminate our minds, you have to come to a point where you you want to be honest. Honest about yourself, maybe the limitations that you have, maybe more honest, or seeing things more clearly about a certain situation. But I just I think that honesty is akin to illuminating and helping us to see clearly. And if you're not coming to, you know, a question that you have with that humility that I really do want to learn and accept. It won't be revealed to you.
Kathryn Davis 19:41 Yeah, because the Lord has asked us to be honest with ourself. And I think like you said, when we are we can be illuminated. In fact, when the people bring the woman caught in adultery to him and they want to stone her, the one thing he says is he asked people to reflect on their own experiences and their own conscience, and he says he that is without sin among you, let him cast a stone at her. And I think he's teaching us how to be honest with ourselves, be honest with our shortcomings, and also honest with our strengths. And can you think of a time when you had to be honest with yourself?
Kayla Jackson 20:30 Yes, most recently, I think has been in understanding my own faith journey. I'll just step back. We live in this world and environment where people are moving away from religion. And I feel like within my generation, and I think they've shown studies that millennials are moving away from organized religion at increasing rates. And there's this notion and sense that if you are a part of an organization that has a messy history, your past that maybe there was some racism or sexism or homophobia, you are completely justified in abandoning that organization. And so I think in that environment, and particularly as we have access to all of this information from technology, questions start coming up about the church. Maybe it's about the role of women or priesthood power, polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, LGBTQ issues. And so when I was at BYU, I'd come home from my mission, I'd been home for about a year, and I like so many of my peers just started to have some questions. And I was going through the motions of being an active member of the church. But these questions just kept bothering me and persisting. And so the first point where I had to be honest, was acknowledging, you know, I have some questions. And rather than seeking to just kind of place them on a shelf and stuff them away and ignore them, I'm gonna acknowledge that I need to work through this.
Kathryn Davis 21:58 Okay, can I ask you? Yes, because I think that is so important. And I see that so often, especially teaching seminary. I think it's so important to dig into those questions. But so many people say, Oh, just put it on a shelf, and don't worry about it. Why do you think it's so important to acknowledge those questions?
Kayla Jackson 22:16 I think when you put things on a shelf, it doesn't go away, right? You're not throwing it out, it's sitting on that shelf, and it will fester. And you know what? I think some of the questions that pop up, they're good questions. And I actually think that the Lord does want us to take the time to wrestle through with him and figuring out, you know, how can I reconcile this or, or what is the answer? Or how can I find peace? And as we do that, it helps other people as well. So, I think I've just seen too many instances where people will have doubts and concerns, they stuffed them away. And eventually it becomes so heavy, and so burdensome that for them, the answer is to leave. And I just I like the approach of well, why don't we just acknowledge it? And let's, let's try to work through it. So I made this acknowledgement, right. I knew I needed to work through these questions. And so one of the things that I really felt like I needed was a community where I could talk through and process and so I found a group of my friends. They were all attending BYU at the time. And I was really particular, I wanted individuals that were committed to the gospel, but that would be willing to have these open and honest conversations. So we started up a group. And these women, we started in person and then moved to a virtual format. They come from all over the country. They are working professionals, young moms, some are in graduate school, and every month, we would take on a different topic. We would talk about Heavenly Mother, priesthood power, the role of women in the church, the founding of Relief Society and our place in it. Really, I mean, so many different topics. We did this for about two years. And for me, the second place where I needed to be honest with myself, was in the intent of my inquiry. Am I having these conversations because I want to be critical, and I want to be negative, and I'm looking for a justification to opt out? or am I approaching these conversations because I really want to seek the Lord's will and understand? And for me, what that required was, yes, this group is important. And it helped me. It was a good supplement to process through my feelings. But what was at the core was that I needed to deepen the quality of my scripture study, of my prayer, of the way that I attended church, of the way that I attended the temple. Because those were the things that were really going to nourish and help me as I grappled with these questions. And so I think it's so easy in this day and age to be negative, and to call out the things that are wrong, but I just found that as I took really seriously that I'm seeking to deepen my relationship. I'm using these conversations as supplement but at its core, I am 100% responsible for my spiritual well-being, it helps me to leave that experience with just a deepened sense of faith and commitment to the gospel and to being a member of God's church.
Kathryn Davis 25:11 So what have you learned about yourself and about Heavenly Father as you've grappled with those questions? Because I love that. I love questions. Our church was founded on a question. If Christ is truly the head of our church, which I believe he is, then there should be no question that we're afraid to talk about.
Kayla Jackson 25:33 I think what I learned about myself is that I have the authority to make choices in my life, right? I get to dictate and determine the way I show up at church, the way I commune with God and have a relationship with him. And I think sometimes we try to outsource that. There is a role for prophets and apostles and living in a community. But then there's also that individual, I'm responsible, I'm responsible for the quality of my relationship with God. So I think what I felt was just a sense that I have the power and ability to make choices for my life and for myself. And when you do that, there go the excuses, because you're dictating,
Kathryn Davis 26:16 you're being honest with yourself.
Kayla Jackson 26:18 Yes, yes, you are. And then I think the thing that I learned about God is that He speaks to us in our language. And I love we often hear about the gift of tongues. And we think, Oh, that that means when you speak a foreign language, but I also think it means being able to communicate with people so that there's a level of understanding. And then even as we communicate with the Lord, it was it was amazing to me, and very humbling to see him put people in my path, to enlighten my mind with certain thoughts, but he, he wants to be there for the ride. He wants to be there as a part of our journey. And our goal and our responsibility is to let him in.
Kathryn Davis 27:02 Isn't that interesting that honesty leads to being a peacemaker, but it's being honest about ourselves, it's being honest to ourselves, and it's being honest about our strengths. And how we can use that strength to be peacemakers to change the world like President Nelson said, like we have to be willing to use those strengths.
Kayla Jackson 27:24 I think not all the times. But sometimes we don't want to be honest about our strengths, because then that means we have to use them. And we have to, we have to do work with those strengths. Like they're, they're there to bless us to uplift us, and to also bless and uplift our communities. And so I think sometimes we seek to downplay Oh, no, I am not capable of doing this. Because it's the easier path, right? It's easier to say no, than to say, You know what, I think this is a strength of mine. I think this is a gift that God has given me. And now it's my responsibility to use that gift to bless myself and to bless others.
Kathryn Davis 28:03 And sometimes that's hard like the rich young ruler. That was a hard ask. Right? We've talked a lot about hard asks, and sometimes recognizing our strengths is a hard ask, because then can we use them to be a peacemaker? Can we use them to spread joy and spread His love and spread his light? And that takes work? You're right, Kayla, it takes work and it takes effort. And I also think that there can be different reasons or times in our lives, where being honest with others can be really hard. We might be trying to preserve feelings or not be harsh, or sometimes it's just easier and less contentious to let people be. How have you been able to navigate conversations when it feels like being honest isn't the easiest decision?
Kayla Jackson 28:55 This is such a good question. I think it's scary. Like you said, it's scary to be in a conversation where you know that there's a disagreement, but to bring that up might open a can of worms. And so for me, when I am having conversations with individuals, I think it's so important to come into the conversation with a softness. That you have a soft heart. People can sense if you're soft, or you're going to come into a conversation hardened or defensive. So I think it's important we enter with a soft heart. I think it's really important that we approach the conversation from a place of curiosity. That I'm genuinely seeking to understand this person and their perspective. And then I'm asking them questions. I love, rather than seeking to sermonize, I'm going to ask questions to get to the heart of you know, what, what is it that you feel or what is it that you believe? And I'm not asking questions, so then I can say, oh, that lie here. This is how I'm going to prove my point. But it's asking that question to be understanding. I love, President Nelson he talked about how the First Presidency, the way in which they counseled together, he said that President Oaks and President Eyring, they never suggest that they know what's best. And I find that so interesting. These are incredible men very well achieved and in their professional lives and in their personal lives with their families. But they approach the conversation with this willingness to accept no, I don't have all of the answers. But I do love that he then followed and said that they still have deliberations, they still have conversations, but it comes from a place of humility. So I think, curiosity, a softness, asking questions, and then being discerning. There are times where we need to say certain things. But that doesn't mean that we need to say everything that's on our mind. I think if you look at the Savior, there were moments where he did speak in others where he was silent, like the last few hours of his life, as he said before Pilate and the Sanhedrin, He didn't say a lot to them. And so I think that that's also telling too, there are moments when we need to speak up and be bold, and moments where silence might be best.
Kathryn Davis 31:04 And understanding and being divinely directed of when those moments are. Absolutely. And I like that idea of coming with a soft heart and coming with curiosity. And seeking to understand, rather than I think some people use the term honesty as a way to just be harsh, or to prove my point, or I'm just being honest. And then they might say something that is hurtful, not out of curiosity, or not out of a desire to understand or build.
Kayla Jackson 31:42 Yeah, I think it's so interesting, as we study the life of the Savior, Jesus didn't cream people, you know? He out of everyone in this world could have really laid it on thick for certain individuals. And there were moments where he did speak with boldness. But I think that overall, the majority of the time, he was seeking to uplift, he was seeking to help people catch the vision of who they were and who they could become. He instructed them and he empowered them. And so I think, you know, we don't always have to step into situations and try to fix everything, the situation, oftentimes will right itself. And so I think, our again, standard of communication is, we're going to uplift and inspire, and not call people out. So I think that's something that we're seeing quite a bit. I don't think it's necessary to call people out.
Kathryn Davis 32:36 Right. And that's what I see a lot. Even President Nelson mentioned that, that it's okay to just scroll through. You don't have to in every comment, try and call people out as a means of being honest. Right. In fact, President Nelson said, "Pray to have the courage and wisdom to say or do what he would. As we follow the Prince of Peace, we will become his peacemakers." And I like that idea of praying to have courage and wisdom, and the ability to discern of when to say something and when to be silent.
Kayla Jackson 33:14 When you look at the relationships that you have on the individual level, in work at home, in your community at church, I think the end goal, just going back to that phrase building relationships that will last throughout the eternities, we should seek to communicate in a way that will preserve the relationship. And I think it's interesting that the Prodigal son, who decided to leave the home, that probably wasn't the right moment to sermonize. And that that's not what happened. He was allowed to go and have his own journey. And then he came back. And I think it's not always our responsibility to have to change people, we have to let them go on their own journeys. And know that there are moments where you need to be honest and speak how you're feeling speak your mind, but then also other instances and moments... what what are the best things that I can say that will help to preserve this relationship? Because that, above all, is what matters the most.
Kathryn Davis 33:14 So Kayla, as you've tried to be honest with yourself and with others, and preserve that relationship or seek with curiosity. And as you've been honest with yourself, what have you learned about the Savior?
Kayla Jackson 34:33 That he is full of goodness and mercy and patience. I think this pursuit of seeking to be a peacemaker is so hard. It's hard and to just know that we have a loving Savior, who we've covenanted with, that we have His power, that we will be able to be a peacemaker, to be a light through his power and through His grace, and I'm so grateful to have him I'm on my side to have him as a teammate, as a partner in being able to do this. So I think for me, it's just immense awe and love for our Savior, who he is. And just a continued desire to want to become more like Him. Involve him in my story and seek his strength, his guidance, and his grace in every interaction that I have with others.
Kathryn Davis 35:23 I think that was the whole point of President Nelson's address that the world needs peacemakers. The world needs us to know our Savior, and to try and act like him and be more like him, and honesty, with ourselves and with others, and with God is a powerful place to start to build that relationship with him.
Kayla Jackson 35:51 Yeah, I view it just it's the beginning, the fundamental foundation that you need to have is, is being honest.
Kathryn Davis 35:59 So good. Well Kayla, I have loved this conversation with you. But before I let you go, we love to end every episode with a small and simple thing that we can work on through the week to become more like our Savior and to develop the attribute of being a peacemaker a little bit more. So what would be your small and simple challenge to help us to be more honest?
Kayla Jackson 36:30 So I think the small and simple challenge that I have is really just echoing the words of President Nelson. The invitation that he gave to us, which was to examine our discipleship within the context of the way you treat others. And I love that word examine. So my challenge would be to take a moment sometime this week, to prayerfully reflect, journal write, whatever it is, maybe it's just a note on your phone, to think about how is my discipleship, particularly within the context of how I treat others. And I know that when we do that, and I've had experiences where I take moments to reflect, the Lord will illuminate my mind to help me know what in what places am i doing well, and in what places can I continue to grow and be better.
Kathryn Davis 37:17 Because God will illuminate when we ask.
Kayla Jackson 37:21 always.
Kathryn Davis 37:22 Thank you so much for being here. This was such a pleasure.
Kayla Jackson 37:25 Thank you so much.
Kathryn Davis 37:32 I loved this conversation with Kayla, in particular when she talked about her faith journey, which required her to be honest with herself and honest with the questions she had, which in turn led to a deeper faith and a deeper connection with Jesus Christ. Thanks for being here. And hop on over to Instagram at magnify community for more inspiration and conversation and of course, subscribe and listen to the Magnify podcast where ever you get your shows. Let's meet up again next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai