28. We Need Your Influence with Dr. Sarah Coyne
As women, we are asked to do a lot, and sometimes it feels like we aren’t doing enough. But President Nelson has said the Church and the world need our strength. So, how do we act on this?
“Christ spent his time advocating for women.”— Dr. Sarah Coyne
Today’s guest, Dr. Sarah Coyne, said in her BYU Devotional, "we are not placed on this earth to fall asleep." Our influence is needed as women in the Church, now more than ever! Our different experiences and talents and skills are what unite us and help us rise to that call. Today, Kathryn and Sarah discuss how we can do that.
As a woman in the gospel and the Church, you are valued and your influence is needed.
Our differences bring us together and make us better. While some women are working, others are staying at home, but we need everyone to build a Zion community.
Sometimes it takes time to figure out our roles and our divine identity as women.
You don't need to be doing more than you're doing, but ask yourself what you need and find your voice when it matters.
Small & Simple Challenge
Get curious about how you can use your voice as a woman. Take five minutes to ponder on that, and then write it down and decide what your next step will be.
Transcript +
Kathryn Davis 00:00 As women we are asked to do a lot and sometimes it feels like we aren't doing enough. But President Nelson has said the church and the world needs our strength. So how do we act on this? Hi and welcome to magnify an LDS Living podcast where we cheer inspire and embolden each other as women and followers of Christ. We hope to use our influence to make a difference in the world. I'm your host, Kathryn Davis, a mom, a seminary teacher, and a grilling enthusiast who loves God. Today's guest, Dr. Sarah Coyne said that as women we are not placed on this earth to fall asleep. Our influence is needed as women in the church now more than ever. Our different experiences and talents and skills are what unite us and help us to rise to that call. So today we're going to talk about how we step forward to do this. It has become like a tradition on magnify that we always start with a couple of rapid fire questions. So Sarah, I'm so excited you're here. Thank you. And I'm so excited for all of us to get to know you a little bit better. So can I ask you a couple of questions?
Sarah Coyne 01:09 Sure. I think so.
Kathryn Davis 01:11 Yeah, no, they're easy. Okay. You have done some research about princesses and how they are portrayed in the media. And your name. Sarah even means Princess, which is my daughter's name as well. Good choice. So we always call her princess. So I want to know what Princess did you want to be when you grew up? Or what is your answer to that question, even now?
Sarah Coyne 01:33 So when I was growing up, my mother tells me that Cinderella was my favorite princess. And we would read the book over and over again. And then I would pretend the stepsisters were coming and ripping my clothes to shreds. And then I got this beautiful ball gown. So I don't remember any of this. What my mom tells me now, my favorite princess, at least this week is Elsa. And it's Elsa in Frozen two. I like I'll send frozen one. But I love Elsa in Frozen two.
Kathryn Davis 01:59 What's the difference? Why do you like her in in Frozen two?
Sarah Coyne 02:03 In frozen two, she's had some significant growth experiences, she's learned some powerful lessons. And she's really stepped into her own independent being, but then also can connect with family and with friends and recognize the importance of relationships. And she just has this inner power that she claims for herself, I think on a spiritual level is incredibly beautiful. So good.
Kathryn Davis 02:31 Okay, here's my other question. If you could download any skill into your brain right now, what would that be?
Sarah Coyne 02:40 Oh my gosh. Okay, so I've always wanted to learn how to play the violin. And my dad was in the Persian Gulf War when I entered sixth grade. And that's the year you like choose an instrument. And so my mom had just given birth to her fifth child. And I said Mom I want to play the violin, she was we have no money, right? Your dad's off at war. And so I just never learned and I listened to the violin being played. I think it's just the most beautiful sound in the world. So I think that'd be kind of fun.
Kathryn Davis 03:06 That would be fun. Okay, here's my last question. So what would be your one piece of advice you would give your daughters as they are growing up? What would that be?
Sarah Coyne 03:17 I have so much advice to give them. So what would my main advice be, I suppose, never limit yourself because of your gender. You can do everything you want to do in this life. And you can become whatever you want to become just trust in yourself and in God, and who you know you are.
Kathryn Davis 03:37 I love that advice. So you gave an amazing address at BYU. And I want to quote your own words back to you. Okay, which I know that sometimes sounds really weird when you hear back. But you said this, which I love. You said As women, we have many roles. But we have one thing in common. We are daughters of a heavenly Father who loves us, and we love him. And he needs the women of the church more in this time than in any other. We are not here to fall asleep. And I just want to ask, What do you mean when you say we're not here to fall asleep?
Sarah Coyne 04:17 So I study princesses, right, as you talked about earlier, and some of the earlier princesses so Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, right? For example, their kind of role in the whole production is to kind of do their thing and then they're enchanted. So then they fall asleep and then they're kind of not present in the film for a while. And then a prince comes and wakes them up with a kiss and then they join the story again. So we compare that to the princesses that are more modern today. You look at some like Elsa or Moana or Merida or Mulan, you know, princesses like that they have these beautiful complex storylines where they're the protagonist, and their role in the film is not just to follow but to be active to be active participants in their own lives and following their own dreams and helping other people in making their mark in this world in a really significant way. So I think that's what I was referring to when I said, I, we're not here just to fall asleep.
Kathryn Davis 05:15 Well, it reminds me of that talk from President Nelson a plea to my sisters, when he said this. He said, We need your strength, your conversion, your conviction, your ability to lead your wisdom and your voices. The kingdom of God is not and cannot be complete without women who make sacred covenants and keep them women who can speak with power and authority of God. How does that quote, remind you of what you said, we are not here to fall asleep?
Sarah Coyne 05:43 So I love that talk. At the time that President Nelson gave that talk, I was in the middle of a pretty significant faith crisis. And it was just wondering what my role as a woman was in this church, and kind of feeling like I was viewed as a second hand citizen, maybe in the church, but also in the eyes of God. And I was just really struggling with that kind of idea about where do I belong? Yeah. And so I remember that conference, I prayed to God, and I was like, give me like a scrap of bread here. I just need something that tells me as a woman, that I'm valued and needed. So I listened to conference for a while. And then that talk came on. And I just remember bawling like a baby. I felt like it was directed right at me, although I know it wasn't. But it was exactly what I needed in that time of life to be reminded of my great potential and worth. And I shouldn't have needed a talk, right? To remind me, but I'm so grateful for that particular talk. It has become one of my favorites of all time, and I absolutely love it.
Kathryn Davis 06:48 Well, I think that's even what elder Holland refers to a lot. He talks about personal prophetic promises, that if we listen with the Spirit, they speak with the Spirit, that it's a personal prophetic promise. And I believe that I believe that talks can be just for us. And if that talk was just for you, what about that talk did you hold on to? Why was that so reassuring for you?
Sarah Coyne 07:13 So I am one who raises their hand a lot, who has things to say and opinions to share and ideas to explore. But yet, sometimes felt limited and felt myself holding back. And so like that, combined with kind of this faith crisis I was in, it just gave me the strength to say like, no, Sarah, like you have valid ideas, thoughts, opinions, insights, all of it. And an apostle, the Lord is asking you is pleading with you. It's called a plea to my sisters, to be that voice. And so when something comes in your mind, you got to share it. You got to have the courage to do it.
Kathryn Davis 07:56 Yeah. So it was almost empowering you to use your voice and share it.
Sarah Coyne 08:01 Yes, I've also found as I have gotten older, to really be an advocate with my voice for other women and for girls. And that's how we strengthen, frankly, both men and women.
Kathryn Davis 08:13 So I just want to ask you a question. It's a little sidestepped, but you kind of mentioned a faith crisis that you were having. Yes. And I guess I wonder if it's really a crisis or a faith journey. That's how I like to think of them, not negatively. Because as you look back, do you think there are principles and a relationship with Heavenly Father like something that you've learned that you couldn't have learned otherwise?
Sarah Coyne 08:39 Thank you for asking this wonderful question. So I actually talk about this with my students when we talk about questions and doubts and dealing with uncertainty. And I share a little bit of my story, and I do call it a faith journey. Some people call it a faith expansion, or like some people call it a faith crisis. But yeah, I say faith journey. I think the time I was referring to felt like a crisis, because it felt like all of the walls were coming down, and the rug had pulled out from under me. So I felt very much in crisis mode, where I had been, you know, smooth sailing beyond that. Yeah. Even when I kind of resolved the issue at hand. You know, President Nelson at the time, gave his talk and it was great. And okay, I can be fine. Other things have come up since then. And there's still questions and there's still doubts, because I'm a thinker, right? That's what I do. Right? I ask the questions, right. And so I do refer to it as a faith journey. And I would never, ever throw away those experiences. I feel like they have made me who I am today. I feel like I am a far more deep person and my testimony of God and of Jesus Christ. It has a far more depth to it than anything I had before. I went through kind of these these hard experiences where you have to confront the hard questions, and find your place and find that space of belonging. There's pain and beauty in the wrestle is kind of how I talk about it, but the wrestle makes you stronger.
Kathryn Davis 08:48 It does, right? It's not easy. No, but it does. And I love how you said for you that made you feel empowered, right to use my voice and to speak with power and authority. But I think for some that might feel intimidating. Oh, yeah. Right. For some, they might feel like, I have to do more? I'm needed to do more? How do you not let that intimidate you?
Sarah Coyne 10:27 So as women, we always put so much on ourselves, right? And so whenever we're asked to do something extra, it's like, I can't fit that in. I got a million things going on my life. How on earth can I do one thing more? Right? So I think perhaps ask yourself, you know, why are you feeling intimidated? Be curious about what that is for you. Is it because I'm feeling overwhelmed? Because I'm doing it all? Is it because I've never really used my voice before. And so I don't know what that looks like. And so I have fear and anxiety around even speaking up, or is it something different? I don't think President Nelson... it wasn't, hey, you guys got to do more than you're doing. I think it was an ask to kind of go through this process of if you can't use your voice right now. Maybe explore why. And then get to a place in the future where you can, and perhaps using your voice will result in ways that actually lighten your load.
Kathryn Davis 11:24 So for me that plea, I like how you said plea, it says a plea to my sisters. And I think even as a prophet, everything that he is invited us to do has been an invite. I invite you, I plead with you, I asked you he is inviting us to be women of God and to teach with power. So my question for you is, have you been actively striving to be more like this?
Sarah Coyne 11:51 Yes, I have been actively doing this. I get a lot of this in my job, which as a professor, right, not everyone's going to have but like I feel you can apply to your own situation. So early on in my life, I was spiritually directed to go get my education, get as much education, as you can President Hinckley said, so I got the PhD I was working...
Kathryn Davis 12:13 Which could not have been easy.
Sarah Coyne 12:14 No, gosh, no, no. Right. And people, my relatives told me you're not following the Prophet, you should be having all these babies. And so after the babies came, I had all of this mom guilt of where I'm like, Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing what God wants me to do? I'm hearing all these voices, I'm all mixed up. This is really, really difficult for me. I think the same year I gave the devotional. And maybe this is what kind of sparked this idea is I was asked to go present up to a communications committee at the church headquarters, and Elder Holland was part of that committee. And I love Elder Holland. And, you know, had always loved what he said. And I was terrified, right? When they when they gave me the call. I said, Yes, I'll come and I went, and they were looking for some information about social media and adolescence, which is my research area. So I gave about a 15-20 minute presentation about the research we had done and what we have found. And I gave some suggestions to Elder Holland of this committee about things that the church could do to reach the youth in more vulnerable and authentic ways. And I will never forget this experience, Elder Holland looked at me and he has, you know, he has those piercing blue eyes. And he just said, Sarah, and I felt so seen and heard in a really unique way. And he said, This is exactly what we need to be doing. And he looked around the room, he said, How can we do this? How can we do this. And then we spent, you know, half an hour talking about what the next steps were. I remember calling my husband on the phone on the way home. And I said, I'm done questioning the revelation that God has given me. I know, this is what God wants me to do. And so I'm gonna let that guilt go. And I'm gonna use my voice in my sphere of influence. And I shouldn't have needed Elder Holland to validate. I should have found that within. But since that day, I think that was in 2015 or 2016. I have never stopped using my voice. And of course, there's still some mom guilt there. I mean, you know, it's hard to let that go fully. But I've stopped questioning my role here at BYU and the ways that I'm using my voice. I know that's what God wants me to do right now.
Kathryn Davis 14:22 So at times, when you question are you have that mom guilt? Do you turn to God for that validation?
Sarah Coyne 14:29 Yes. And when I'm scared, or when I'm lonely, or when I feel like I'm going to fail? I try to draw on that strength. And you know, it doesn't always work. But that's been a really beautiful source in my life.
Kathryn Davis 14:42 And sometimes we require daily of us, right. And I think it's interesting you were talking about you have studied the effects of social media and the influence of social media on young adults, but I also think it's the same with women. Right? Can we find our identity from our heavenly parents, from our Savior Jesus Christ, rather than what the world is saying about us?
Sarah Coyne 15:06 Yeah, we've done some studies around motherhood and social media, and the social comparison that especially new moms make trying to compare ourselves to these, you know, seemingly perfect moms who have everything in check, you have to be this and this and this, this, you'll always come up short. All right, I'll give you a wonderful source of all sorts of things. And I think that's why I chose to give my devotional which I could have given on any topic, on our divine identity, because so much of my own strength, and courage and power come from an understanding of what that is for me in my life.
Kathryn Davis 15:41 And it took you time to understand that, right? Like, that was a journey for you.
Sarah Coyne 15:46 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've been working as a professor over a decade. At that point, you know, and still questioning am I doing? Am I making the right choice? All those things.
Kathryn Davis 15:56 It just reminds me of that scripture in Isaiah where it says in the appropriate time, God will answer us. But sometimes it takes some time. And it reminds me of kind of what you were talking about wondering and comparing and especially comparing ourselves to others. It reminds me of this quote from Sister Renlund. And I know you're familiar with this quote, and I love it. She says one thing I've always felt strongly about is that there's no one way to be an LDS woman, I love that there's no one way to be an LDS woman. How have you seen that to be true in your life?
Sarah Coyne 16:31 So when I grew up, and maybe some of your listeners are like this, I felt like I was taught there was one way you get married really early, you go to BYU, you get a bunch of kids and be a homemaker. And you'd be great at making bread and doing crafts, and you'd know all the scriptures and your house would be beautifully decorated, right? This is like the what I was taught was like the ultimate like Latter Day Saint woman. And I'm not that. And I remember, I was comparing myself to one of my friends who is like that. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, she's so perfect. She's got all these things. Am I viewed less than? Because I'm not this view. Right? This is what I thought was a stereotypical right way. I was struck by the thought and I know what came from God. It said, Sarah Coyne has different strengths. And they're good. And they're valid. Don't you dare put them down. And so I could appreciate this is my friend Shanna, for being all those wonderful things, and for bringing me the bread and like the crafts and everything, that I could be equally as valid and contribute to the kingdom in just a significant ways, from the strengths that my heavenly parents gave me. And that was years ago, that was a long, long time ago. And since then, I've been able to appreciate Latter Day Saint women, for who they are and what they bring to the table. I mean, not everyone is going to teach the eternal family at BYU. That's me. That's what I do, right? But everyone else has something different to bring. And it takes us beautiful village in this beautiful community to create Zion.
Kathryn Davis 18:03 Well, you said that in your talk, which I love, you went on to say, Do not be afraid to share your experiences and your insights in the class or in a calling, especially when you are in a leadership position. We need your voices. We need you all we need the single Sisters, we need the mothers, we need the widows, we need the grandmas, we need the aunts and we need the daughters. We need the women who work and we need the women who stay at home with their children. I love that like we need the Sarah's. And we need the Kathryn's and it's so easy to compare ourselves that we don't fit into that mold or that ideal. I love how you felt that you know, Sarah, you have specific strengths and talents. And I think that is super easy to doubt our strengths and our talents. Like did it take you a little bit to understand what your unique gifts and talents were?
Sarah Coyne 18:52 Of course, I think it's like a lifelong journey. I'm still kind of trying to figure it out right? Kind of placing the kingdom. And as I've reflected since giving the devotional I think I would give a part two, maybe they will ask me to give it this one because I have it all planned out. But like, it's like, we know this divine identity, right? I think like on paper we all know. And I used the word prince and we're princesses of these heavenly parents, right. But sometimes we don't feel like a princess. Sometimes we doubt. Sometimes we feel like garbage. Sometimes people are mean to us. Sometimes we feel like we don't belong. And then we forget that divine identity and that divine spark. And then all of that courage and strength and power seems to filter away. And so just kind of validate those feelings when they come I think it's a very human thing to happen. Right? Because in my in my devotional I'm like this should change everything right the way you see yourself may have and then I realized there's a part two and it's like, when you feel like that. What do you do? How do you get it back? I was trying to reflect on what helps me kind of get back in beyond you know praying or Yeah, yeah, what does? Yeah, I realized it's spending time with women, and just feeling of their strength and they lift me up and they remind me of who I am. And there's this beautiful sisterhood that helps me remember, so very grateful for women.
Kathryn Davis 20:16 So I wonder, as you've been on your life journey to use your gifts and your talents, what have you learned about the Savior? What have you learned about his character as you've tried to understand who you are?
Sarah Coyne 20:33 That's such a good question. So I first learned as I advocate, and I use my voice for the marginalized, the people who struggle to have a voice in certain circumstances, I feel Christ in a really unique way, because that is what Christ did. He spent his time advocating for the marginalized, for the women, for those that society had brushed off and had deemed you can't even come, you know, in our, in our society. And like, that is how he spent his time is using his voice and his strengths to advocate I just felt really close. That's the gospel of Jesus Christ, to me, is to connect us with everyone in the equation here. The other thing that I've learned, as I've used my voice is that Christ loves women. And we saw that throughout his life in many, many different ways, you know, from the woman at the well, to the woman caught in adultery, to Mary and Martha, and to his own mother, you know, we have so many beautiful examples here. But I have just felt a deep connection to Jesus Christ, as I have been able to use my voice, particularly for women.
Kathryn Davis 21:46 Well, James Talmage said, the very first champion of women and women hood is Jesus Christ.
Sarah Coyne 21:51 It's so true, right. And I see that in the life of Jesus Christ, and then how I feel when I talk about equality. Again, I just, I feel so connected to my savior. And I think it's because I've been trying to use my voice more and more.
Kathryn Davis 22:02 Well, as a mother of daughters, and a teacher of so many students, I love the example of strong women. There are strong women in the scriptures, there are righteous women at church and in our neighborhoods, and there are righteous women in our classes. And to encourage that, and to see that and to recognize that and that's what Jesus did. That's what the Savior did. Right? He encouraged and he brought in. Sarah, we like to end every episode with a small and simple challenge that we can take into the week to implement and just kind of think about, so I want to ask you, if you have a small and simple challenge, or reminder for how we can be these women that do not fall asleep, but that are participating in the work?
Sarah Coyne 22:51 I would say, just be curious this week. So we talked about that a little bit earlier. But think about the ways in which you want to use your voice, but you haven't for some reason. So your small and simple thing is to simply sit with that for five minutes. And be curious about what's going on. And then if you want, you can write that down and take the next steps. Right, we talked about some next steps. But just be curious this week, and see where it leads you to.
Kathryn Davis 23:17 I think we've lost the art of being curious or wondering.
Sarah Coyne 23:20 I think I said at least once in my class every every time.
Kathryn Davis 23:24 That is awesome. Sarah, thank you so much. I loved our conversation today. And I love this quote from President Nelson and that same talk, A Plea to my sisters. President Nelson says today, let me add that we need women who know how to make important things happen by their faith, and who are courageous defenders of morality and families in a sin-sick world. We need women who are devoted to shepherding God's children along the covenant path toward exultation women who know how to receive personal revelation, who understand the power and peace of the temple endowment. Women who know how to call upon the powers of heaven to protect and strengthen children and families, women who teach fearlessly. How grateful I am for women who have shepherded my children who have been there for me who are leaders and examples who teach fearlessly. Thanks for being here and hop on over to Instagram at magnify community for more inspiration and conversation. And of course, subscribe and listen to the Magnify podcast wherever you get your shows. See you next week.