30. Deliberate in Small and Simple Things with Jennifer Platt
When we figure out how to discover meaning in the most mundane of tasks, we can find opportunities to feel closer to Christ, even when doing something as simple as the dishes or the laundry. Routines can become rituals when we take ordinary tasks and look for ways to make them sacred, and we will see the Lord in unexpected ways.
“The intention is really easy when you want more Jesus in your life.” — Jennifer Platt
Today’s guest, Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt, wrote “Rather than performing our day-to-day routines with little thought or effort, the most ordinary event can become rich in meaning.” She and Kathryn discuss ways we can get closer to Christ when we learn to turn everyday tasks into opportunities to connect with, serve, and love each other better.
You can take your everyday routines and turn them into rituals by putting intention behind what you're doing.
The Savior is a great example of taking ordinary moments and turning them into sacred experiences, so look to him as the guide.
If you're feeling overwhelmed by your routines, take one thing and simplify it to make it more sacred for you.
Remember that intention can lead to desire, so just start with the intention to make your everyday mundaneness become more sacred.
Small & Simple Challenge
Consider your daily routines, and look for one thing you want to address. Whether it be something that really challenges you, or something you don't enjoy doing, look for ways to find the Savior in those moments.
Transcipt +
Kathryn Davis 00:00 When we figure out how to discover meaning in the most mundane of tasks, we can find opportunities to feel closer to Christ even when we're doing something as simple as the dishes. Hi, and welcome to magnify an LDS Living podcast where we cheer, inspire, and embolden each other as women and followers of Jesus Christ. We hope to use our influence to make a difference in the world. I'm your host, Kathryn Davis, a mom, a seminary teacher, and a grilling enthusiast who loves God. Today's guest Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt wrote, "rather than performing our day to day routines with little thought or effort, the most ordinary event can become rich in meaning." And she's here to show how we can be closer to Christ when we learn to turn everyday tasks into opportunities to connect with serve and love each other better. I am just really excited to have you here, Jennifer, like, I'm so excited. Thank you. And we like to begin every episode with a couple of rapid fire questions so that our listeners can get to know you a little bit better. You're ready. Yeah, let's do okay. You got your PhD from the University of Arizona and now you teach at BYU Idaho.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 01:18 Arizona State. Arizona State. Okay. PhD from Arizona State. That's a huge rival.
Kathryn Davis 01:23 Yeah, we want to make sure it's clear that it's Arizona state. But I don't think you could be in two opposite climates from Arizona to BYU.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 01:34 That's true. It's true.
Kathryn Davis 01:36 So what is your favorite time of year in each of those places?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 01:41 Okay, right now it's April in Rexburg, Idaho. And Easter Sunday felt like I mean, for so many reasons. It felt like home. But the weather change in the snow leaving is magic for me. That first signs of green, the little buds on the Aspen tree the shoots of the daffodils coming up. It's hope. But you have to live through a dreary, hard, bitter winter for spring to be so sweet. So So in Rexburg, it's springtime. And in Arizona, I haven't lived you know, there aren't seasons. It's hot and not as hot. But the winter time in Arizona is so fantastic because of the orange blossoms. And it smells really magical. And they've been extended, I guess this year and still kind of happening. But it would be like I don't know, like February. In Arizona.
Kathryn Davis 02:35 Maybe that's when I need to go.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 02:37 Yeah, call me.
Kathryn Davis 02:39 Okay I'll call you. I also hear that you are a fellow marathon runner.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 02:46 Once upon a time, I have not run any marathons, but I've done 12 half's 12 halves.
Kathryn Davis 02:53 What did you learn about yourself from the training process? Because it's that training can be rigorous, I think.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 03:04 I think that... What a good question. For me, it was the consistency like I really value consistency. And I remember I was training for a full marathon this the winter and spring that I met my husband and I stopped running. I didn't have anything to run from anymore. I was like, oh, okay, I kind of just fell out of the routine because you know, it has to be, yeah, daily, that you have your Sunday rest, but everything else is so daily and nutrition and everything. And I tried to run even the 10k in that marathon and I couldn't, because I'd fallen out of shape so quickly. And so I think that's the thing that I value so much about running and it parallels so many things in life is the consistency and the steadiness of doing what you can in the season you're in. And so of course I laugh now because I'm like, I don't want... Can I walk three miles?
Kathryn Davis 04:02 That's awesome. Well, it's true. And it's a you get out of shape so quick. It's kind of unfair. Yeah,
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 04:08 it's it's not fair at all. Because you work so hard to even cut like 15 seconds or something. And it's gone.
Kathryn Davis 04:17 Yeah, it's so true.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 04:18 So you're a marathoner?
Kathryn Davis 04:19 I am. Well, I was I've run five marathons. And I don't know if I can. I would love to do it again. Kind of I think but I'm not sure.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 04:32 I think we're a special breed right that likes that sort of torture intensity and drive and good job.
Kathryn Davis 04:39 Yeah. I just like the accomplishment. Like, oh, my gosh, I did it. Yeah, I love that, too. Okay, so I also heard you are or you were on a board for an organization called hope arising that helps give micro loans to women in Ethiopia. Yeah. Are you still on that board?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 04:57 No, I'm not but I still 100% advocate for the work that they're doing in Ethiopia. We, so this was back when I was in Arizona, Chantal Carr and Rochelle Sellars started the organization and I think it's just Chantal now that's doing it. But it was the most amazing thing. And I would travel back and forth to Ethiopia. And at the time, we were working to get them a water line so that they could have fresh water. And just the way that it improved the quality of women's lives at every level, and at every age, just to get them fresh and clean water. But I remember one day we were talking to some people. And that's kind of how the microloan started with just this woman needed money to buy a goat. And if she had a goat, she had all this strategy of how her life would improve. And these women are just rallying. It's really natural for Ethiopian women to just love and care for each other. It's just intuitive. I think it is for women in general. But there was there's something culturally for them that was so intriguing for me. But hope arising continues to do amazing work. They'll take dentists and do dental work, and try and do a little bit of medical, that's more complex, but hope arising is is really special organization.
Kathryn Davis 06:17 I love that. Well, Jennifer, I'm so excited to talk to you today about I've been listening and reading a lot of what you've written about routine versus ritual. And you have some very interesting thoughts about rethinking the word ritual. You have written about how everyday tasks and to-do's can be set apart and sacred. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that word ritual has meant to you?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 06:50 Yeah. And I love how you it's fun to hear how you've articulated it. And it was interesting, because a lot of what I wrote then was before I had had children, and I love the way God prepared me for the mundane of early motherhood and how messy that is and routine that can be so routine. Yeah, but what I realized ritual is making the ordinary sacred. And it consists of three parts are ritual, and you can find this in in any kind of anthropological studies or things that way. But, but just the way that I've learned to articulate it is that it's choosing to make any act sacred. And it consists of three parts: I've prepared for it with real intent, like I've thought it through and said, Okay, this is how I'm going to do it. And I'm gonna give you an example of something that I learned in early motherhood, I don't do bodily fluids. So, diapering was a nightmare. And I just I know, it's not bad at the beginning, but I just diapering wasn't going to work for me. And I was shoving toilet paper up my nose and gagging and I ritualized the act. And so I prepared for it. And, and the thought was, I'm so grateful this child's body is working and functioning properly. And then I started really thinking about how much I wanted the child, And I have a little girl, a little boy, that I wanted my children to cherish the gift of their bodies. And so I wondered, how can I prepare for this diapering that could happen 10, 12, 14 times day ritualize it in a way that this ordinary task can become sacred to me? So that was the first part you prepare for it. And for me, I needed to get really focused, and from a my mindset is always how does it fit into the plan of happiness? And can I find a doctrine to attach it to. And so for me, I wanted the doctrine of the body, okay, you participate with real intent. And the idea with that is that you're present, you're not distracted to doing the next thing. And so my little girl came first. And I would start and lay her on her changing table. And we could make eye contact. And I would start with her little head at least one time a day, and go from head to toe and tell her how much I love her body. And I love your head, and I love your eyes and your ears, and I love your little nose and chin. Look at those shoulders, and I'd worked my way all the way down to her little toes. And then I would be ready. And I would change her diaper while I was talking to her about how much I love her body. And it became so holy. It became so sacred for us in that time. And then the third part of the ritual is you reminisce or remember it. And so even now, what you and I are doing, I'm reminiscing this and you know what Kathryn, it was so cute that as she grew up, she would get in the bathtub and she'd say, I love my body. And she would just chant how much she loves. And now nine years old, she He loves her body. And so I'm working with, they're still saying, Okay, how do we ritualize the beauty of your body and what God has given to you to be able to really thrive. So there's a really simple example. But the idea is you take any ordinary or mundane tasks, and you make it holy or sacred. And then you have those three parts.
Kathryn Davis 10:23 And I think, like we see so much on social media, that here are, you know, five great tips to start your day if you do these certain things, or to end your certain day, and it's seems to be talking a lot about routines and routines seem great in theory. And on the first couple of days, but sometimes it's overwhelming to continue with a routine. So it's kind of sounding to me like a ritual is very different than a daily routine.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 10:56 Yeah. Yeah. The ritual is sustainable though the daily routine can be ritualized. And I think that's the magic of it. You know that life, life is ordinary, and it's mundane. And do you remember this quote, I was thinking about this this morning. This is from President Hinckley from 1984. And he says, "Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he's been robbed. Most putts don't drop most beef is tough. Most children grow up to be just people. Most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual toleration. Most jobs are more than often dull than otherwise, life is like an old time rail journey delays, sidetrack smoke, dust cinders and jolts interspersed, only occasionally, by beautiful vistas and thrilling bursts of speed. The trick is to thank the Lord for letting you have the ride." And that's, to me really, at the heart of what I'm trying to do is to just say, that's life. And life is pretty ordinary, and you were talking about social media, I'm gonna go and we're so inundated with polished pictures, and glimpses of perceived perfection, that if I can just say, What's the most ordinary or even difficult task that I do every day? And how do I make it holy? And part of the intention is, I want to be living my covenants as I do it. That how does this one ordinary silly or mundane thing draw me to the Savior? Because, really, I mean, think about it. Most of the interaction we have with Jesus Christ in the New Testament is in an ordinary circumstance.
Kathryn Davis 12:44 So what are some of your favorite routines that have become rituals for you? You talked about changing the diaper. But now in the stage of life you're in now what is something that has become a ritual for you rather than a routine?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 13:00 So mealtime is a lot of fun at our house. We have we call it happy hour. And we turn on music and dance. We prepare for it. You know, my daughter is she's nine. And so she's doing the children and youth program where she sets goals to prepare a meal every week. And so she plans the menu, she shops for it, but that that time, the way we've prepared for the meal, the way we engage in the meal time, and then even the cleanup of the reminiscing, the remembering the good of the day. And I think a lot of us do things like that around meal time. I mean, do you do stuff like that with mealtime?
Kathryn Davis 13:39 Yeah, we do. And ours is with cleaning up. We kind of do a kitchen dance party, and it's still with all my teenagers, and it's one of my favorite parts of the day.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 13:51 See, for sure you label it a ritual, and to help them to see there's purpose in this, how are we living our covenants that the idea is we're trying to have a relationship with each other and be bound to each other, to feel safe and secure as we navigate life. It's covenant living, you're ministering to your children in that moment. And I think that's part of the beauty of it is that mindset of being so awake and present. Right now, I'm living my covenants. And I love living my covenants. And this is joyful to me. And it's drawing me to the Savior. I think that a lot of times we think it needs to be I've spent two hours in the Book of Mormon today, or I've...
Kathryn Davis 14:38 extra things.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 14:39 Yes, yes. Instead of oh, this is the routine thing I do. I try to ritualize the way I get to work lately, I've been ritualizing the way I get dressed in the morning.
Kathryn Davis 14:50 so tell me about that....Yeah.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 14:55 Well, this is very this is me choosing I love my temple garment. I I love this power that I am clothed with this. It's a kuffaar. It's a covering a representation of Jesus Christ, on my skin. And so I am really careful with the way I take care of my temple garment. And the way that I have laundered them and folded them and kept them in the drawer and I get them out. And I just say thank you even just to get them out of the drawer and just go, I'm so grateful for this shield and protection. And I think about my body, right, I guess we're going to talk about bodies today, but just that in all the flaws and imperfections. And one of the things I do pretty regularly, both of my children came by C section, and so I'll just feel that scar. And I'll think, today I do my mothering and remembrance of him my scars a reminder of the work to bring those beautiful little ones to the world. And that I want to remember that because sometimes it gets messy, right. But I can think I wanted them and it was a sweet price. Anyway, as I put on my temple garment, I try and review what happens in the initiatory. And think about the promises that are reciprocal. And that's the start to my day. So that's super, it's really simple.
Kathryn Davis 16:18 Right? That's why I love this idea is it's taking simple things that we do, and turning them into a way to connect with our heavenly parents, and understanding the sacred behind that. And in your book, you listed a multiple of ways that we can take something simple and turn it into a ritual and some of the things that you wrote, I just I love this one. Where are you said, feel the sunshine on your face for at least 10 minutes a day and allow it to remind you of the Son.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 16:54 Yeah. And isn't it something living in the frozen tundra, that that can be tricky to find the sun and that I'll find different places. And sometimes it's dark for me that that the winter or seasonal depression and different things that way. And science is even showing us the power of that vitamin D in the sun. And I don't know that I knew that when I wrote that. But I just you know what every chance we get to connect with Christ, and to just say, Oh, there he is. And he loves the ordinary.
Kathryn Davis 17:28 And there's one more thing that you wrote that actually it's something that I have really I have seen in my life where I have tried to really take this to heart and live this where you said never hold back a positive comment, compliment, or thought. Build, Build, build. And to me, I love that idea of doing that can become a ritual it can become a sacred offering to my Heavenly Father, when I've never really thought of it that way before.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 17:58 Yeah, I love what you're thinking what you're doing with that, right? And again, it's just that mindset of saying, What's my purpose here? What's my why? And I tried to mother, my children, my husband, and I really work with them to be builders and to think about, what do you see in people? What do you observe in people, and don't be shy to say that and our daughter's name is Camilla. She was named for Camilla Irene Kimball. And I read her biography to Camilla as a newborn, and bless her little heart, right. But that well-used quote, never suppress a generous thought. And again, that came after I wrote the book. And so the seeds were planted, and now we're just trying to practice but how often do we see something and we feel stupid to say it or we feel insecure? But then it feels so good to just say, I love your blouse? Or tell me about and to be curious about people.
Kathryn Davis 18:58 I just love how you're teaching us that we can take that everyday tasks, and we can look at them in a very different way. But what about when you're feeling really overwhelmed? What like, what if you're like, I can't do all of this. And I don't know if I can look at that that way. Like how do you adapt?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 19:24 I'm glad you asked that question because I don't want someone to think oh, she's just mastered this and I struggle like all of us. One is to be curious, to be really curious and interested in what's happening in your life. That what's caused the overwhelm, or maybe even kept you from ritualizing your life what's going on that you're not feeling like there's time to do essential type of things. And to be really curious and intrigued about that and then to pray to make adjustments. This is repentance to be able to say, Oh, I was too busy today to think about the Savior. Well, the repenting then comes in saying I actually want to draw him more deeply into my life. And that's, that's a place that can be tender to realize why have I over programmed or why am I so overwhelmed. But my experience has been that whenever I draw in this type of structure, even if it's just one area of the day, like getting dressed, then I'm going to make sure that I ritualize, things go better. And the overwhelm seems to lift.
Kathryn Davis 20:37 Sometimes I get overwhelmed with a list of things that I can turn into a ritual, but maybe to start with one thing that you're doing every day, and turn that into a ritual, a sacred time to connect.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 20:51 Yes. And to see how it starts to spill over into other aspects of life. I'm curious, are you thinking of something? Is there something you're thinking to ritualize?
Kathryn Davis 21:00 Yeah, it's my drive to work.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 21:04 What would you do? How would you prepare and participate and remember it?
Kathryn Davis 21:08 Well, because it's something that I have to do every day. And it's a time where I am alone, which doesn't happen hardly ever. And I just think as I get into my car, to really ritualize that as a time to connect and to be still, because that's something I struggle with is being still and so that is a time where I can be so can I ritualize that as every day, preparing to get into my car and be still and just think and meditate and wonder and be curious and connect with my Heavenly Father?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 21:48 That's cool. You have to let me know how it goes.
Kathryn Davis 21:51 I will.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 21:52 I'm still kind of processing your question about the overwhelm or when the rituals aren't working, or whatever. Yeah, it's so one thing, I am an avid journaler. And every morning I journal and I, even before I pray, I write three handwritten pages to just kind of pour out. And when I miss those days of that preparation for my prayer, I always know that's what's gone wrong. Does that make sense? Yeah. Oh, if I could just get back to that one thing. And then that helps me to say, Okay, what needs to be addressed now? Like, I'm entering a different little phase of life right now, for the next couple of months, it's going to maybe be a little slower. I don't dare say it out loud, right. But it could be a little bit of a slower, less structured season. And so I'm trying to wrap my head around, what's this going to look like? Instead of me... I mean, because I love my list. And I love to have the tasks and I love to... I'm that person that will go and write things on the list that I have gotten finished?
Kathryn Davis 22:55 Yes. So you could check it off? I totally do that too.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 23:02 So, so I'm saying how do i ritualize the quiet? Because I like the busy. And so I'm asking a lot of those questions right now. I'm glad you asked me because that's where I'm at, in saying, what's it gonna look like to take the morning walk, to be quiet, to be comfortable with the quiet?
Kathryn Davis 23:20 So it seems like creating a ritual from a mundane daily routine is all about the intention you put behind it? Yes. So as you're talking about quiet, what intention would you put behind that, in order for it to become a ritual.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 23:38 Part of that is that I need stillness. I'm an anxious person. And that I'm trying to see if that might still my anxiousness. If I'm being candid, and a little vulnerable. I feel like sometimes I get snippy with my kids not even sometimes that I get frustrated or snippy. And I want to be...
Kathryn Davis 23:59 Really? I don't think any of us listening have ever.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 24:03 So I'm the only one and I, you're the only one. I'm happy to be that person for everyone. But I'm trying to be I'm trying to enjoy them more. I'm trying to be more present to the season that we're in. And so I'm trying to find the stillness so that I can be more present. But I also I mean, just to even be still and know that I am God and that sometimes I feel like I have to be doing a lot of things to get there. But I love that idea of I'm just going to be still I'm just gonna see what happens in quiet.
Kathryn Davis 24:38 So I am hearing that you have to be intentional first. So like intentionally think about some of your daily routines. Yeah. And does intention lead to action?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 24:51 I think so. I mean, isn't that desire? like when Nephi wanted to see the vision? Right, and he's thinking about his dad in First Nephi eight and he wants to have that experience his dad's had, and he had to desire it. And the intention, I think it's really easy. I want more Jesus in my life. And you know what, I love the plan. I love the plan of happiness so much. And I just I want to experience the plan. I know I'm in a temporary state. And I want to think about the eternities. I want to have straightforward experiences of Jesus Christ, I want to feel the Holy Ghost functioning in my life. And I would even say to anyone listening, what's the thing that you hate doing the most, but have to do it daily? And that's what I would ritualize laundry, the laundry? Right. And how do you ritualize it?
Kathryn Davis 25:47 That is a really good question. Right? Because I'd have to really get intentional about that is how can I ritualize my laundry? Because I hate laundry. It's like a Mount Everest in my laundry room right now.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 26:03 It never ends. It. Yeah, just as you've gotten the last piece folded, there's dirty laundry again. Yeah.
Kathryn Davis 26:10 So to think about, like the intention behind that, how can I ritualize that and even going back to your diapers, right? Like, I'm taking care of my family, we actually have clothes that I can wash and launder and to think of it more as a act of service and gratitude, that would totally change the way I do it.
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 26:33 One thing that changed laundry for me is engaging my children. And they're often saying, Oh, this would help us prepare to be missionaries, wouldn't it? And so, so I'll say something like, and again, they're little they're nine and seven. And so it's things like can you load? Or can you forward it to the dryer? Or can you find your clothes off the bed and go take them to your room that I'm even trying to that's how I've started to ritualize laundry is how do I engage the children, not to overwhelm them, but to help them to see this as part of belonging in our family. This is something that's preparing you for your life so that you're self reliant, and so different things that way too, that that sometimes I could I could Huck-Finn most anything and find a way to get other people to do it.
Kathryn Davis 27:26 Love that. That might be one of my favorite sayings I've heard. I can Huck Finn. Love that, Jennifer. So here's my question, though, because it seems like you've been practicing this for a really long time. And you've been finding intention behind a lot of your daily tasks and your daily chores. Do you ever or have you ever felt like it was all a little much or that you were failing at it that you weren't able to see the ritual? And were you able to? Or are you able to give yourself grace when you aren't doing it well?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 28:12 That's a good question. Because I kind of chuckled like when you asked me to talk about it. I said to my husband, do I ritualize anything? He said, Yeah, everything, virtually everything. Yeah. And so it's sometimes I forget. And so part of that is to be able to say, Look at what I am doing well. So there's such a power and connecting. And thank you for that chance for us to connect with each other and to be able to see the good that I am doing the good that you're doing. And to be able to talk and connect. I think this is the heart of ministering, to be able to say I just I need to sit down with my sister and and talk real and what's going well, and in those moments, you know, my ministering... the sisters I minister to may not value anything we're talking about today, this just may not even work for them. And that's totally fine. That's okay to be able to draw that out into from each other, I think is really powerful. And so for me that too is a process of ritual of being able to say, look, Jen, calm down, lighten up and look at the good you're doing. And it takes maybe a friend like you saying, Hey, are you doing all right with that? And there's power in those kinds of questions to to ask each other. Like, you've really got me thinking, what would it look like for me to ask someone, How are you giving yourself grace in the things that you value? And how are you being patient as you progress with the things that you value? You've got me kind of intrigued with this idea. How would you ritualize being gentle with yourself? And that's not attached? That's a good question. Right? And I'm going to work on And that I think I'm going to give that some energy because your question I think, was really inspired, to be able to say, I'd like to make it sacred. And it's not ordinary to be gentle with myself. And I think I'm gonna go get my Patriarchal Blessing out and just think a little bit about what would it look like for me to prioritize and make it a holy act? To Be gentle with myself?
Kathryn Davis 30:28 I think from all of your rituals, I think we can learn something about our Savior. What is something that you have learned about Jesus Christ, as you've been ritualizing many of your day to day tasks?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 30:45 Do you know what? I love him? I love him so much, because he is in all the details. And he's there, you know, growing up, we always had the picture of the door without the handle, and, and always just thought, oh, yeah, that's nice. But this idea that he really does care about these things, and that he wants so much to be an active role in our lives, that the power of covenants is such that we can be bound to him. In fact, when when I was writing this book, I wanted to call it bound and determined, meaning I'm bound to him. And I'm determined to grow to be like him. He is so patient, and so kind, and so interested in the mundane. And again, the more I study him and come follow me this year has been so sweet, to just see him in the most ordinary of circumstances, and that it's there that he offers the miracle. And he'll meet us there, and is so so kind, to meet us where we are, but I have to remember him. I have to prioritize him. And choose choose him always choose him.
Kathryn Davis 32:12 For me a testament that he is involved in the very details of our lives. And he cares about them. Jennifer, we like to end every episode of the podcast with a small OR simple action that we can take home and implement throughout the week. So before we end today, what is your small and simple invitation for finding rituals to connect with Christ?
Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 32:37 My invitation would be to consider your daily routine. What's a typical day? And is there one thing that happens regularly that you want to address. And I think it would be really helpful to connect with someone. If it's on the online community, if it's your neighbor, your sister, your mom, your ministering sister, and just talk it through with her. I just love what I have experienced being with you today by connecting but to identify the one thing that's the hardest or most difficult, like the laundry, the drive to work, whatever that is, and how do you make that ordinary thing sacred by preparing for it, participating with real intent and then remembering, can you see Jesus there.
Kathryn Davis 33:28 And that's so important, and we would love for our listeners to connect with a neighbor or a friend and of course over on magnify community so that we can really cheer and empower each other. Thank you so much, Jennifer, thank you. I really liked this conversation with Jennifer. And I thought it was really important when she said look what you're doing well, and take one of those things and figure out how to ritualize that to become closer to Jesus Christ. Thanks for being here and hop on over to Instagram at magnify community for more inspiration and conversation. And of course, subscribe and listen to the Magnify podcast wherever you get your shows. Let's meet up again next week.